Monday, February 18, 2013

Pre-Wrath or Post-Tribulation Rapture

Here's a message I posted in Facebook in response to a question about the timing of the Rapture. I share some insights I believe the Lord has given me (and believe me, I'm not thrilled about some of it!). However, it is what I understand of the Word at this point:

You know, Mike, after the Holy Spirit showed me the truth in the Word, I said I was "pre-wrath" as well. Then a few weeks ago, I was reading Revelation, and while I'd already seen that the 6th Seal and the 7th Trumpet seemed to be describing the same event, I suddenly noticed that the 7th Vial also seemed to be describing the same event: earthquake, darkness, "it's done", sky falling...many, many similarities to the Day of the Lord described throughout the Bible.

I'd already pretty much decided that the Seals were describing a distance view that encompassed a good deal of time, perhaps decades or even a century or two. Then the Trumpets were a closer look at a some events that were closer to the end and happened in a shorter length of time, perhaps decades or years.

I also believed that the Vials happened very quickly, as in when you pour out something it doesn't usually dribble out. Instead the container (vial) empties quickly. So I figure the vials are describing events that happen very quickly, perhaps months weeks or days.

So when I saw the similarity in the 6th Seal, the 7th Trumpet and the 7th Seal, I sought some clarification in the Word.

Most people base a "pre-wrath" designation on the fact that the Bible says we are not "call to wrath". However, since God doesn't change, perhaps there are examples in the Bible of God protecting His people during great judgment. Two off the top of my head: the children of Israel in Goshen when God was pouring on judgment on Egypt. Before that, when He poured out His wrath on the entire earth in the flood. Noah and his family weren't taken out...they were protected in the ark, a symbol of being protected in the arms of God.

Also, I noticed recently something interesting about the 7th trumpet. Rev 10:7  "But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished..." Suddenly I saw "when he shall BEGIN to sound..." To me that implies a span of time involved in the sounding of the 7th trumpet.

Which since the 7th trumpet is the LAST TRUMP which is when the rapture is supposed to occur, it would make sense that we won't know the DAY or the HOUR...but we will know the season. When we see those thing happening, we can know that we are close, and can actually know, as events happen, that we are closer and closer.

Also notice in Rev 10:7 were it says "the mystery of God should be finished..." is similar in meaning to Rev 16:17 the 7th vial where we see "It is done".

Also, in Rev 16:15, we see Jesus saying "Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame."

This is just before the pouring out of the 7th vial. We know that His coming as a thief in night is for those that are NOT watching. But here He say "Blessed is he that watches". To me this implies that the rapture has NOT taken place yet.


Check out this Bible study on the Day of the Lord to see whether the 6th Seal, 7th Trumpet and 7th Vial might possibly be describing the same event. One event, not two or three or more. One Event...the Day of the Lord and the Second Coming and Rapture of the Church all the same.

1 comment:

Rocky2 said...

[Amen and Bravo, Like a Thief-----
Saw this goodie on the web. Enjoy.]


PRETRIB RAPTURE STEALTH !

Many evangelicals believe that Christ will "rapture" them to heaven years before the second coming and (most importantly) well BEFORE Antichrist and his "tribulation." But Acts 2:34, 35 reveal that Jesus is at the Father's right hand in heaven until He leaves to destroy His earthly foes at the second coming. And Acts 3:21 says that Jesus “must” stay in heaven with the Father "until the times of restitution of all things” which includes, says Scofield, “the restoration of the theocracy under David’s Son” which obviously can’t begin before or during Antichrist’s reign. ("The Rapture Question," by the long time No. 1 pretrib authority John Walvoord, didn't dare to even list, in its scripture index, the above verses! They were also too hot for John Darby - the so-called "father of dispensationalism" - to list in the scripture index in his "Letters"!)
Paul explains the “times and the seasons” (I Thess. 5:1) of the catching up (I Thess. 4:17) as the “day of the Lord” (5:2) which FOLLOWS the posttrib sun/moon darkening (Matt. 24:29; Acts 2:20) WHEN “sudden destruction” (5:3) of the wicked occurs! The "rest" for "all them that believe" is also tied to such destruction in II Thess. 1:6-10! (If the wicked are destroyed before or during the trib, who'd be left alive to serve the Antichrist?) Paul also ties the change-into-immortality “rapture” (I Cor. 15:52) to the end of trib “death” (15:54). (Will death be ended before or during the trib? Of course not! And vs. 54 is also tied to Isa. 25:8 which Scofield views as Israel's posttrib resurrection!) It's amazing that the Olivet Discourse contains the "great commission" for the church but not even a hint of a pretrib rapture for the church!
Many don't know that before 1830 all Christians had always viewed I Thess. 4’s “catching up” as an integral part of the final second coming to earth. In 1830 this "rapture" was stretched forward and turned into an idolized separate coming of Christ. To further strengthen their novel view, which evangelical scholars overwhelmingly rejected throughout the 1800s, pretrib teachers in the early 1900s began to stretch forward the “day of the Lord” (what Darby and Scofield never dared to do) and hook it up with their already-stretched-forward “rapture.” Many leading evangelical scholars still weren’t convinced of pretrib, so pretrib teachers then began teaching that the “falling away” of II Thess. 2:3 is really a pretrib rapture (the same as saying that the “rapture” in 2:3 must happen before the “rapture” ["gathering"] in 2:1 can happen – the height of desperation!). Google "Walvoord Melts Ice" for more on this.
Other Google articles on the 183-year-old pretrib rapture view include “X-Raying Margaret,” "Margaret Macdonald's Rapture Chart," "Pretrib Rapture's Missing Lines," "Edward Irving is Unnerving," "The Unoriginal John Darby," "Catholics Did NOT Invent the Rapture," "The Real Manuel Lacunza," “Thomas Ice (Bloopers),” “Wily Jeffrey,” “The Rapture Index (Mad Theology),” “America’s Pretrib Rapture Traffickers,” “Roots of (Warlike) Christian Zionism,” “Scholars Weigh My Research,” “Pretrib Hypocrisy,” "Appendix F: Thou Shalt Not Steal," "Pretrib Rapture Secrecy," “Deceiving and Being Deceived,” "Pretrib Rapture Dishonesty," "Famous Rapture Watchers," and "Morgan Edwards' Rapture View" – most by the author of the bestselling book “The Rapture Plot” (the most accurate and documented book on pretrib rapture history which is obtainable by calling 800.643.4645).